Old Site plan
New Site Plan
Office Ground Floor
Office Upper Floor
2012 International Building Code
2012 International EXISTING Building Code
2012 International Fire Code
2012 Arkansas fire prevention code
To play the media you will need to either update your browser to a recent version or update your Flash plugin
1:20 I explain that there are some differences between the plans and the current place.
2:21 "where have you had utilities installed?"
2:44 fred tisdale asks:"what's the cost of phase 1 going to be?"
2:50 I'm not doing any modifications really to the building. I'm trying not to do any
substantial renovations. I just want to be able to occupy it as is.
I point out areas that I want to use.
3:26 "how much's the renovations gonna cost ya?"
I'm not doing any renovations to anything.
3:33 how much money you gonna put into this project, the whole building?
3:52: "You'll have to get a sprinkler system.Get it green tagged.
have to get all exit lights, lighted exits, emergency lights, all fire extinguishers, every
exit door is working, all doors are working and stuff like that. your interior you know has
to be completely re-done everything all that mold n' stuff that's just to do what you want
4:07 "then when you go inside a area and you say ,ok I wanna do something different. Then
you'll have to submit drawings to show me exactly want you want to do in that area. to go
into an area and
7:01 you'll have to bring the whole thing up or show me that it's separated on architected
13:26 they want me to use the stand alone building. It's got a big hole in the roof, and is
15:24 they are talking about that end room.
2 hour or 90 minute rated door in end warehouse.
16:22 they say the sewer is already connected and there are no other problems there.
16:52 "He gives me a certified letter saying that's a rated wall, and you've got a rated
door, that protects me later on."
22:21 what do I have to do to get the power turned on over here?
19:33 you're changing now, you're going from a factory to different occupancy
22:46 "So this is the thing. power, well power comes with the with the existence of
electricity comes the activity of occupancy. and we can't give permission for occupancy in
any portion of the building until the codes are met. so until the fire department says
they're ok with this section of the building ...... all of that if fred is saying right no.
we have no reason to a
23:22 "we have no reason to establish utilities to space that hasn't been approved for
occupancy or any kind of use."
I need to look up fire engineers
4:45 city says Lary lyles can't pull a permit because the building needs "everything"
4:50 They want to see josh
5:30 They say my UPOR is invalid because Josh
6:16 They say I can't change my mind about plans
I bring josh back that same day.
Lary lyles never tried to get a permit
no charge for courtesy inspection... should have paid $75 to get checklist
Rupert Thomas tells me to calm down
0:55 They say that Lary lyles didn't want to pull a permit
1:02 I say he told me he tried
1:08 They say Lary was lying
1:18 "well first of all, a permit could not be bought before you completed the steps
that you were asked to do.
"And what are those steps? Can I get those in writing? Can I get those steps in writing?
Can I get anything in writing telling me what I need to do along this path?"
They change the subject.
1:50 Rupert Thomas tells me to calm down
2:30 I'm escorted out
kyle cooper, electrical inspector for pine bluff is here now
0:30 he remembers meeting lary lyles at the property
0:42 "we never established any plans"
1:15 There were no "plans" meaning a reason to turn it on
They change the subject to fire dept
0:50 They say I'm trying to occupy the wrong part of the building
1:26 They will only work with Josh
1:40 They won't work with me on power because my UPOR might be invalid
I talk about suing for inverse condemnation
"You guys don't have a sound plan of what you're going to do in each section of the
building. You can't just inhabit..."
I reference 2012 International Building code section 107.3.3: Phased approval
I reference 2012 International Building Code section 116.3 Notice of unsafe condition.
If you want to pay for an inspection give us $75 and I'll get a written list of
everything I need to do if my UPOR is still valid.
My UPOR is still valid
Fire dept says it's all under one roof so I must describe use of every part of the
structure on engineered/architected drawings.
1:18 I'm handed a copy of a notice about UPOR approval
Asking about UPOR notice
0:30 asking why Lary Lyles couldn't get the permit.
Need engineered architect drawings including building work, wiring, plubmbing and hvac
for the entire project befor power can be turned on.
I ask if they have seen the international existing building code.
2012 International Existing Building Code 184.108.40.206: Building Evaluation
Repairs and level 1 alterations are exempt from evaluation by a registered design
2012 International Existing Building code section 301: Compliance Methods
Applicant can choose their compliance method.
301.1.2 Work area compliance
describe the area where work will be performed
They change the subject, and defer to the fire marshal.
0:40 I reference International Existing Building Code section 101.4.2: Buildings
Occupancy shall be permitted except as otherwise specified or when ther is a safety
and welfare issue. ie: a determination of an unsafe condition.
1:05 I propose a use that should have no need for fire marshal approval such as outdoor
lighting or outdoor security cameras.
I reference International Existing Building Code chapters 6 and 7 which define repairs
and level 1 alterations, because that's all I need to do to bring the building back into
compliance with it's previous condition.
International Existing Building Code section 101.4.2: Buildings previously occupied
0:26 They say existing building code doesn't apply because its "destroyed beyond a
0:42 I talk about their requirement to notify of unsafe conditions
2012 International Building Code section 116.3 Notice of unsafe condition.
0:50 they say they established it was unsafe, but never notified me in writing
They promise to give me a report in writing
I declare my full intention to comply with everything. verified by Josh.
I just want to use it for any purpose. What can I do?
0:25 "Can I use any part of the building for anything that fits under my UPOR?"
1:08 they talk about residences
I had a property 2 blocks away under contract that had scheduled to close
on dec 14th.
After being asaulted in zoning I declined to extend the closing deadline
because of uncertainty about my prospects going forward.
1:28 I express my opinion that the structure is sound
1:35 I reference 2012 IBC 107.3.3: Phased approval
1:53 "they say you understand right?" I respond no.
2:00 They say the fire dept is in control.
2:07 I express my frustration with the fire marshal
2:30 because I have trouble understanding the speech of the fire marshal, and I
can't get anything in writing.
2:55 They change the subject to Josh's meeting
3:28 Talking about the $75 vs "courtesy" inspection.
4:17 "...They didn't say anything about the $75 because..."
4:50 check off list is only for people who pay the fee
5:00 building has to be up to code first? before the inspection?
5:40 What's the courtesy to me of the courtesy inspection?
6:20 "you did get feedback"
6:24 "I didn't get anything in writing"
6:32 "that doesn't change the things that need to be done."
6:50 "you're not realizing"
I agree with them that I don't understand
7:22 "what did you get?"
"something that says that I need to get permits and stuff and whatever"
This is in reference to the UPOR notice:
requirement #3: "The Owner/Permittee shall secure all necessary inspections
7:30 "see how dismissive you are?" "you were given that and you see how quick you just dismissed it?"
"Because I tried to get permits and you won't give them to me"
-Maybe I don't understand what they are referencing
8:45 They need my intended use
I say that all I want to do is run security systems.
Rupert tells me to calm down
9:16 I ask for something in writing
Rupert promisies that I will get something in writing.
9:50 I point to section 113 of 2012 International building code
I ask how to make an appeal to the board of appeals.
They don't know what I'm talking about.
10:40 They can't give me a permit
10:50 They use Josh to make an example of how to have power turned on
11:12 They tell me Lary Liles lied and didn't want to pull a permit.
11:19 "Larry lyles told you that we blocked him from getting a permit. That is not true.
That's what we've been trying to get you to understand. That was not true. He told
us he did not... he was not going to get the permit because he didn't actually do
12:18 "You can't keep playing the blame game."
13:00 "You're putting all the blame on us, but we're trying to help you."
13:18 "You have to take responsibility for the mess"
14:28 What is the easiest way to get occupancy?
find one spot to start in, start there.
I started in one spot with some power.
15:30 Did they block him?
They refuse to say whether they blocked him.
16:05 do I have a set plan? what am I going to put in?
16:20 I lose my temper, and am told to leave.
I appologize to them and try to start again.
0:30 how do I get an occupancy permit?
0:50 I need to unload the containers.
1:57 is there an application for an occupancy permit?
"Not from us, I've never seen an occupancy permit."
2:05 "can I help you ma'm? oh you're trying to get in that building."
2:44 "ok, occupancy permit, how do I get one?"
"Let me call Rupert so you can talk"
oh, with no construction? that's the permit that lady is filling out.
I think I filled one out before
"we don't have an existing on file, that's where you pay your $75 and get the checkoff
0:40 If I'd known the difference was only $75 I would have done it gladly.
0:50 "we only give those out if you're going to put a business in."
I've been trying.
"The problem is you're trying to do too much"
They told me to ask for everything in the UPOR
"There's too much"
It's a huge building
I need to be able to start somewhere
1:55 "I'll get your application together so you can pay the $75"
"Here you go John. You can fill this out."
"is this something he can do or does he have to present?"
"he has to present"
"John are you listening?"
"what are you trying to do now Mr. Fenley"
I just want an occupancy permit.
I'm trying to start as if I... as if I'm coming in brand new fresh, don't know anything.
You gota explain like I'm 5 years old, why I can't get one.
"That was done. The way you're approaching this thing you're not going to be able to
keep pressing the reset button and thinking that uh..."
Where is the process breaking down?
"huh, say what now?"
Where is the process breaking down?
With me? What am I doing wrong?
"You are being told how to go about it, the process, and you are refusing."
What is the process?
"It was given to you in writing."
I'm not trying to do construction. I just want to move into the existing building as is.
"You didn't do that."
Ok, so what's, What's the problem?
"Say what now?"
-Forcefully: I'm gonna fill this thing out. I'm gonna to pay you $75, and I want you to
tell me what's wrong.
-I am sitting down.
-Rupert comes across the room
-he forecefully rips the clipboard out of my lap where I had been holding it.
"whoa whoa WHOA"
-My phone had been sitting on the clipboard and it clatters to the ground.
"oh, ooo, ohhhh"
"GET OUT, GET OUT!"
you knocked my phone to the ground!
I filed an information report about the incident.
2:30 the mayor arrives
3:15 I announce that I'm recording
4:19 Where did you say you were from?
4:34 You said makerspace. Is that somewhat like an Innovation hub?
5:00 I talk about my troubles in Provo
6:23 I describe that I believe the building is in good condition. I didn't see
any problems with it's current condition.
7:24 Their recording starts
7:45 Roll call
Mayor Shirly Washington
luise sullivan Mayor's assistant
Althea scott City attorney
Fred Tisdale Fire dept
??? Thompson Fire dept
Ernest Jones Fire dept
Rupert Thomas Inspection and Zoning
Larry Murray Fire dept
Lakisha Hill Inspection and Zoning
Mitsy Ruth Inspection and Zoning
Larry Renolds City Planning
Steve Giles My Attorney
11:09 I talk about getting the place ready for my kids to join me here.
11:57 Mitsy ruth and Department of child services told me my kids couldn't be here
12:31 Mayor asks about bathroom facilities.
12:53 I express that it wasn't worse than camping
13:10 I never got anythnig in writing, but the major problem was residential zoning
14:33 It may not have actually been Micron, but I think it was.
15:10 I see an opportunity for large donations
15:47 My vision for the space
16:28 I explain why there are so many unknowns
17:15 I talk about where I got my love of science
19:31 They talk about safety. I agree that it should be safe.
20:33 "It was approved in writing for the uses. Now to establish those uses
the building has to meet the codes."
MSW: "Is that clear to an individual that is just coming in?"
21:11 MSW: "Did you get that?" -referencing the UPOR notice
JF: "Uh, Yes. Yes I was given that, and I did return it to you?"
JF: "But my understanding was not what I experienced though."
"There was, There was room for, for some misunderstandings, and I think
"One was that I would get something in writing telling me what was wrong
with the building so that I could fix it."
"The other was that I might be able to use parts of the building that were
still good without having to bring the entire structure, all 220,000
square feet up to current existing building codes. Having plans drawn as
if it's brand new construction with all engineering. You want drawings of
every wire, every beam, everything. Is that what you need? before, before
I can do anything in that building? Thats, That's what I'm being told. I
was given a courtesy inspection that was not a courtesy to me becuse,
apparently, I had not paid a $75 fee to get the feedback in writing.
People came through, they did a full walkthrough. They were telling me a
bunch of stuff. But they didn't give me anything in writing that I, that
I could do. That I could check off a list and say I need to do this and
this and this and this and this and then I can use the building. I can't
get power turned on. I've been told that I need to have a contractor come
and request the permits for the wiring. I've had 2 contractors come and
neither of them have been able to get the permits for the wiring to have
my power turned on. They've been told they can't do it, but they still
haven't gotten a denial in writing."
MR: "May I speak?"
25:17 MR: "You would have to submit clearly. I'm going to make this my office. I'm
going to make this whatever. And then the inspectors, fire marshalls, then they
could definitely tell you: this is what you need to do to do that. That was never
done. That's why we needed the plans. Because if you submit plans that tells us
you are going to put office space here. You're going to use this for your, the
other things that you mentioned so we could give you something in writing to move
forward. And that's where everything kind of got lost."
26:01 JF: "Yeah, Yeah, I never got anything in writing. So the courtesy inspection
was not a courtesy to me. It did not help me."
MSW: "Well it sounds like it did not help you because you did not have plans."
MSW: "Normally when a UPOR is given there is a plan that is presented to show
exactly what it is that you are requesting"
LH: "He gave a mock write up and site plan of what he wanted to do on the
property, but when you talk about a substantial development or re-habbing a
building. The allowable tear outs and the condition of the building it's in
reaches a threshold for plan submittal. And also with the change in use, because
the building was industrial and office at first. Now we're establishing
residential living quarters, retail, and other forms of business that do not
equal what was formerly there. So now to establish those uses in any portions of
the building then we need plans to review for the establishment of those uses in
those spaces. Because not only the substantial repair it's like going back in
with new because what's there is not usable. We can't verify code, and the plans
verify that for us, because it outlines the rehab of that building. So we needed
that because we had to justify and see code being met in these portions of the
building based on the uses.
27:45 MSW: "Ok, I see these here now. Does this indicate that you have plans now?"
28:08 JF: "I brought in a copy of these plans, and I'd marked on the plans with
colored crayons where I wanted to do things, and I was told that that was not
28:26 LH: "That's basically, that would equate to a site plan mayor, showing what you
want to do in portions of the building. That's not what's required to issue
permits and approve the development. We need engineered architectural drawings
that shows the electrical, plumbing, heating and air, the outlined spaces, square
footage and fire codes to approve uses within the building."
29:01 LH: we gave him options, he said he wasn't interested in that.
29:17 JF: I explain the power isn't a good option there.
29:45 LH ignores me and says I just didn't want to do it and says Entergy will do it
LH says entergy can do it in 5 to 7 weeks
30:46 LH says end portion was an option if fire rating established.
Says fire dept needs rating
she says I wouldn't pay for fire rating... I couldn't find anyone to do it.
31:25 LH wanted me to tear roof and walls away on the main warehouse and I didn't
want to do it.
Dang right, I'm not tearing it apart because they want me to.
32:59 we look at the plans together
33:47 MSW: "So it seems like you're trying to live out your dream. Alright, and your
dream is in, in a ?puddle?. I don't know what your purpose is here."
36:05 LR talks about 2nd planning commission meeting
36:22 LR: "I wouldn't do anything to benefit him until he cleans up the property
because that was a condition of the very first planning comission meeting."
39:53 I talk about IEBC 2012 section 301.1.2: Work area compliance
LH: "We have a threshold as well for construction. When remodel or repair reaches a certain threshold, plans are required from our end."
41:00 LH: "We have to have a beginning point."
JF: I explain things
LH: explains her experience
42:33 MR: says Larry Lyles met with her yesterday and said he didn't want to pull
47:17 Fred Tisdale speaks
48:07 FT: "...or you may separate that building with a fire rating..."
48:24 FT: "... section 107.4.2 Technical assistance ..."
"I'm allowed to ask for any type of drawings, everything at no cost to the city,
from you, to supply me this information. That's where the architect or engineer
gonna go out and say 'Alright,This is what Mr. Fenley wants to do in this little
space right here'. It's got the exit ????. It's gonna give me like a light
safety plan, an exit travel distance, it's gonna go all the wire and stuff cause
I'm gonna stick with my part right here. Based on the use and the number of
people is there so many things go there. But you gonna have a door to get, door
to get in to get out.
Gonna have to get light, lights, emergency lights, and fire extinguishers, stuff
like that. Maybe sprinkler systems, depends on the size of it.
"so when you ??? tell us the use of area. So you go in that 20,000 square foot and
say 'Ok, I'm gonna go in here and just. I gonna move in there and live in there.
Ok?' So I've gotta take that whole square feet as residential, so you'll apply that
code througout the whole building. 'I don't want to do that, I'm gonna just use this
section here.' then you're gonna have to get drawings out here showing me that
you're going to shut that section off to meet the current ratings right there. Or if
you got them you still got the number of exits you need to get out and stuff like
"If you go into the 2012 Arkansas fire prevention code with Arkansas amendments and
reference standards. What I mean you look up the 2012 fire code online, you might
not have the amendments that we adopted specifically to our state. Which are the
"Down in the clerks office there are 3 separate copies of it that you can go in
there, sit down, and look at at your leisure and think whatever you want to do with
49:56 JF: "Even though it's a site plan, the building is so large on 17 acres that you
can see the individual rooms on the site plan, and I had them marked with the uses
that I wanted to do in those buildings."
50:07 FT: "Are you a licenced engineer or architect in the state of arkansas?"
FT: "The code right here allows me to have that, and that's what I need."
JF: "I didn't draw those plans. All I did was mark where I wanted to do the
FT: "That's fine, but it's change of use. So when you change a use from a
factory cause I'm thinking it's rated F-2 right here, cause I don't know cause
we can't find the old plans and everything on there, I couldn't find anything or
you couldn't produce it to me showing the occupancy when it was built."
"you change the use, that use will require all new current codes to be brought
up to code."